Less Stress In Life

Dr. Kelly Fortier: How Your Brain Interprets Stress

July 20, 2021 Deb Timmerman and Barb Fletcher Season 1 Episode 22
Less Stress In Life
Dr. Kelly Fortier: How Your Brain Interprets Stress
Show Notes Transcript

In this episode, Chiropractor, Dr. Kelly  Fortier, share a great explanation of what happens in your nervous system and brain when it is under stress.

Dr. Kelly has been practicing at Uptown Chiropractic in Fredericton, NB since 2008, with a focus on family health and wellness. A challenging pregnancy triggered an interest and more training in working with kids. She discusses the topic of birth trauma and its influence on our nervous system throughout the lifespan. 

Deb Timmerman:

You're listening to Less Stress in Life. With hosts, Deb Timmerman and Barb Fletcher. We believe life with less stress and more energy is possible with the right tools, strategies and knowledge. So we bring your real conversations around the stress of relationships, money, and the daily hassles of life with guests that will inspire, challenge, entertain, and motivate you to take action.

Barb Fletcher:

Welcome, everyone. Our guest today is Dr. Keller Fortier, a chiropractor practicing in Fredericton, New Brunswick since 2008. Kelly's practice focuses on family health and wellness, but she has a keen interest and additional training and working with kids. So Kelly, tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and your practice.

Dr. Kelly Fortier:

Like you mentioned, I started in 2008, and I actually had a keen interest in sports when I first started because I was an athlete by nature, and it just seemed to fit the path that I was on. The Practice quickly changed after getting pregnant with my first. So, I had been associated with another chiropractor, where we were seeing kids and families, but it really exploded after being pregnant. We'llprobably get into this a little bit further on in the conversation, but I had a very stressful pregnancy, knowing from an ultrasound that I have a baby that has a heart defect. Knowing what I knew about chiropractic being so beneficial for pregnancy, it really kicked in when I was going through a lot of stress emotionally, you know, just with the thought of potentially losing my baby, and the unknowns that came with that, in that period of time. And then it was after her birth that I can say now she's doing amazing, and we had a really great, but stressful but great journey really kick started my interest in pediatrics, because of what I saw, after caring for my own daughter, after having the very best medical care at the IWK. And just, you know, I'm so grateful for all the work that they did with her, but they were limited in in their tools. So maybe we'll just get right into this story because it kind of relates to where my passion was driving from. But, you know, just after heart surgery, she did have at a week old, she also had high blood pressure with that. So the recommendation would be to medicate her. And so after having conversations and governing that this wasn't any intimate danger, like we had some time to make a decision, just knowing our philosophy on health, if I could avoid that, because we don't know the long term implications for that, and her future with the medication that would kind of alter her own natural physiology. And my interest was, hey, what if we could get with her and hopefully reduce her stress, which we'll talk about, and maybe she wouldn't need them at all. So if there's no eminate danger, any immediate danger that we need to be concerned with, then give me time, give me time to start working on her because it was about she was about three or four months old that they wanted to medicate her. So just didn't sit well. So I got to work and I dug in and I connected with other chiropractors that were really in our circuits like some of the best in the world. So I actually got in contact with now friend of mine, but also colleague, Dr. Tony Ebal, and he is in Crystal Lake near Chicago. And so I was like help me because you know, I need to know what you know. So that really was a spark of my journey to really understand children's health. And more than just like typical neck pain, back pain, sports injury, it became very clear that I needed to go down this road so that I could be there for other parents and give parents an option and even themselves an option, maybe before a more invasive intervention or just even prepping them for a better future. So we're not playing the reactive game. So that triggered this lot of interest in pediatrics where I took on my husband and I, Dr. J, took on another program and other education. It took us about four years to get certified in pediatric care through the ICPA which is International Pediatric Chiropractic Association and we learned so much in our journey with all of our kids, but definitely our first child was the the one that really brought us to where we are today.

Deb Timmerman:

I'm going to ask if your personal question and maybe for some advice. So I have a grandson who is about eight months old, that had traumatic birth and he is having trouble sleeping. He'll get to sleep and he'll get startled somehow and wake up So could you speak a little bit to what stress looks like in those younger kids first, and then talk about how can parents be, or why should they be more open to complimentary therapies? Or chiropractic in helping those kids settle? And then the third part of that, why is sleep so important?

Dr. Kelly Fortier:

Let me know if I don't answer your questions. But essentially, so in your eight, eight month old, not sleeping. The key, that thing that really kind of lit me up and like, is traumatic birth. So when we work with kids, and even adults, we do bring them right back to that even before that. So one thing we know about growth and development, especially in a pregnant mom is that their nervous systems are going to build the baby's nervous systems, right. So if you go right back there, if the mom is under stress, so they can, you know, birth or pregnancy is stressful in our society, right now, it's, it's hard, because we, you know, we tend to hear a lot of what the things that can go wrong and be focused on that stuff. And we can get wrapped up in it. And we don't often, you know, explore natural, healthy, happy, supportive births, like it's, it's kind of more fear based in a way. So in utero, if mom is stressed, you're essentially kind of growing a baby in a stress loop, if you will. And then that traumatic birth is a big kicker. So when that baby's born, you know, a lot of times we're using interventions, we're using forceps vacuums, even just having hands in around the neck, kind of like helping it out, can injure the delicate tissues in the neck. So I would never want to say that, that intervention was not necessary. That is not my call. And I would never, you know, assume that. But one thing that we are kind of missing is that after birth, you know, if anybody even like suggestive, picking your baby up by their head, like or like pull them by the neck, we would never do that, right? Because we kind of understand that, that wouldn't be a good idea, that chart on the neck, we're told to support and cradle and care for the baby's head should not hurt their neck, right. So one thing we see commonly time and time after, again, when we see babies that are colloquy are not sleeping or like like that rigid tense, like you can just tell the baby's not comfortable, they're not pooping, like they're not doing the things that we would expect the baby to do, it's oftentimes considered normal, or they'll grow out of it, or that sort of thing. But if we, if we kind of miss that trauma, and we take it back there, that can be the very first injury to that spine, head and neck, that can set the stage to trigger more stress response. So I can go into that more in more detail. But essentially, as soon as we have that, we would call and chiropractic is called a subluxation. And really, that just means like a trauma of tension stress inside the nervous system that affects the way that the body communicates back and forth to the brain. So for have this major, kind of like physical trauma, and then we have a subluxation built in there where the joints and everything's not moving, well, it's not happy, it's irritated, it's inflamed. All that goes right up into the brain kicks on the stress response. And have you ever tried to sleep when you're stressed? Right, like how does that go? You know, it's it's very, one thing we know is that we cannot be in a stress state and a relaxed state at the same time. So if we bring the nervous system really simple into two main categories, we have our flight or fight system, which is awesome. If we're in a car accident, like Bo were talking about earlier. Or if you're like in a dangerous situation where you need to like get up and go, that is really key that we have that working. But we also need equal breaks. So we would consider the fight or flight like in a car that would be a gas pedal, you need to go but you also need equal brakes. So the brakes is like your parasympathetic nervous system that helps all your rest, your digest your growth, your development, your sleep, your immune system. This system is often suppressed by the stress that we that we are faced with right so you know, sometimes it's hard to consider a baby being stressed, you know, what do they maybe have to be stressed? Well, but that physical trauma can absolutely set the stage where we have a stress dominant brain a stressed dominant body, we're getting noise and irritation up into the brain. So what goes up is going to come down and out. So it's um That sleep issue could certainly be due to the birth trauma and just an unrecognized or an undealt. With neck injury. And when a chiropractor is changing work working with kids and infants and babies, they can feel that they can see it right away almost in some subtle observational issues like maybe they have a head tilt, or you're looking at eyes, eye levels, you know, but that like head tilt, torticollis would be like a, you know, end stage or like a more major noticeable thing where you know, if you've heard of torticollis, the head is like, literally sideways. But you can have subtleties into that. And so when chiropractors trained to look at that stuff, that's what we're looking for, we're looking for balance of tone, when we feel them, we're looking when they hold their head up, are they tilting? Are they tipping are their eyes level, those kind of things. So if we have, you know, the information going into the brain is not is not proper, then we're going to have a stress response out. So it's really hard to sleep that might be your your grandson's symptom is that they're sleeping is off, you know, that baby should sleep, you know,

Deb Timmerman:

Those same things show up in an adult? So what you just said, was kind of how our nervous system should be operating. And because of FOMO, or whatever stress. Is that the same description that would give forhow it would look in an adult?

Dr. Kelly Fortier:

Absolutely, yeah. So like, it's worth every every patient that comes in our history starts at birth, right? Like, we want to know what that was like. And they'll oftentimes adults don't remember that. But yeah, like, if you're subluxated, your spines in stress mode, it doesn't really matter what your age, your like physiology is going to be to function in a similar way that way. So of course, so it will oftentimes redo like these workshops in pair and the revered for kids, but you have parents that are like, Wait a second, this sounds awful lot like me, like, I think I need to get under care. And the awesome thing about our brains is that it's never too late to make a change, right? So your brain is very plastic, it's has a neuro plastic capability. Obviously, the earlier we get to unwire that stuff and comment down, the better. But just because we're old, doesn't mean that we can't be helped either. Right. So. So yeah, absolutely stressful affect adults, you know, in a very similar way. Did I answer all your questions?

Barb Fletcher:

I guess I have never really thought about, until recently, opportunities for chiropractic with babies and little ones, but it all really make sense. And what I'm thrilled to hear you say is that it's never too late. Yeah, people can get to a place where they think that there's no hope.

Dr. Kelly Fortier:

Mm hmm. Yeah, I think that's a really challenging place to sit with. So hopefully, if, if anyone's listening to this now, and you kind of feel like there's no hope for you well there is. I'm sure there's many suggestions, you've chatted with other people to help, you know, you manage your stress, and then like, find more joy and all of these things, ut like, the nervous system plays a big role in like, with, when we speak to parents, and you know, we see a lot of kids on the spectrum. I mean, they have some of the most stressed out nervous systems you've ever seen very chaotic, very disorganized, which can contribute to a lot of the things that we see you outwardly behaviorally in their mannerisms, you know, now I forget where I was going with that. But Gosh, what was I gonna say, I just totally lost my train of thought. Um, yeah, like, essentially, reorganizing their nervous system is so important for those kids, right? And even for adults, because even if we talk about some of these conditions, we see more and more in kids, we have them in adults, too. They just, you know, it wasn't maybe as prevalent, right? We have ADHD, and adults, we have all these things. But, you know, when we can get a hold of the nervous system, this is what I was gonna say. And the thing with with chiropractic is I would never ever, ever want to say that we are our treatment or a cure to a diagnosis. So if you're stressed out and you might have a diagnosis of depression or anxiety or ADHD or whatever. chiropractic is not treating those things. The the point of chiropractic is to help calm the nervous system and then that helps your body normalize and be functioning at its best potential, right. So the other things that we know to manage stress would not you know, be eradicated just because As you get adjusted doesn't mean you don't have to take care of yourself, right? It's just it helps clear out the noise in this system so that when we do those things that are good for us, we get better results. And that's something that we see with adults with kids with, you know, anyone that we're caring for. So that's really exciting too!

Deb Timmerman:

Kelly, could you talk a little bit about the neurological changes that you might see when someone's stressed? So how does that show up? What does that look like?

Dr. Kelly Fortier:

Yeah, so we do and you guys are probably very familiar with heart rate variability. And, and in our office, we use scan technology that helps to look at neurological function and like autonomic function. So autonomic means that it's that stuff that your body does automatically. So like control your organs and regulate your blood pressure, regulate your temperature control your immune system. So that is a tool that we do use. And we can see visually how your body becomes more balanced, your heart rate variability improves, you become like, just in better tone that way. But if we really look at the physiology and some of the neurology behind it, once we can, you know, change the input to the brain to more growth mode, we start having a better response up into the prefrontal cortex, which is awesome. I mean, that's your Higher Learning brain brain center, when we're in stress mode, we're really stuck in that like lower, you know, brainstem kind of survival, brain activity. And so when we're, when we're doing things that help kind of calm us and help to de stress us, we start triggering, and start connecting the pathways from the cerebellum up through to the prefrontal cortex, where that's an area of the brain where we are like that, that makes us human, right, it's like executive thinking, it's like thinking ahead, what is right and wrong, like planning out complicated plans, and like, you know, having great conversations and emotional intelligence, and this is all in the prefrontal cortex. So as soon as we kind of, like get in that stress mode, we suppress that. So it's like, I don't know, we've all experienced it. And I always kind of relate back to kids, because in kids, they don't have a fully developed brain. So you know, as they're growing that prefrontal cortex is, is developing over time. And so, you know, it's, it's not abnormal for your child to have, you know, outbreaks and like, be irritated and things that bother them or are like, you know, in our perspective, not very big, you know, what I mean, it might be like a blue cup versus an orange cup, and, you know, they kind of flip their lids. When things are stressful, where as an adult, we have a more rational brain where we can be like, Wait a second, this is temporary, like I can, you know, it's not appropriate for me to like, throw things and yell and scream and stuff like that. So as we, you know, go through care and help a child have better brain function, we see that they're nourishing that prefrontal cortex better and in adults can be similar things, right? Where we're really stressed, we're more irritable, and we, you know, say things or we, you know, do things in a way that we wouldn't necessarily have done if we were like, zen, right? So that whole pathway up to the prefrontal cortex is a big one to help get that higher learning and executive center kicking on so that we're not like flipping our lid and, and losing control of our emotions.

Barb Fletcher:

I really appreciate your comment about how people need to go off and continue to do positive, healthy kinds of things. With the chiropractic gets, it's not a one and done kind of experience. And I think what we really hope people understand about some of the conversations we have is it it's really about a menu, it's about a buffet, and people use those techniques and strategies that really resonate with them. And at the same time, they feel those positive results, but it is not a single path.

Dr. Kelly Fortier:

Right. And the other thing too, I 100% agree with that is that chiropractors kind of have this rap for being like, Well, once you go, you always have to go and as if that's like a bad thing and you get addicted to it and all that stuff. So I'm like you were saying a healthy habit is something that is habitual, you do it for as long as you want to benefit from that habit. Right. So, so chiropractic, if we're looking at it from a pain perspective, only Which again helps the brain because once we get adjusted, I should chat a little bit about the neurology behind the adjustment. But if we're subluxated, if our spines not moving Well, what they know through research is that your spine has about 60% of that biofeedback up to the brain, it's called propriate receptive information. And it is fuel for your brain, it actually calms it. So when you're moving, you tend to be happier, right? When you're sitting, you tend to be like, you know, you don't feel as good, you don't have as much vitality. And usually, if you're feeling off, you get out for a walk, you feel better. So when you get adjusted, it's very similar to that concept. So if if your joints are not moving properly, if your body's under all this stress, you get adjusted, it helps increase that proprioceptive input to the brain, and it decreases what's called nociception. so nosy deception is oftentimes, like thought of as pain only, if you're in a lot of pain, and you have a lot of inflammation. And that's where, you know, people tend to see nociceptive input, but input can be very stressful without any symptoms. So nociceptive input is stressed to the brain. So once we increase proprioception, proprioceptive input, we lower naturally the nociception. So if we have, you know, if we have better movement, we have more information to the brain. And that's amazing. So 60% comes from the spine, and actually 30% of that from the spine comes from the upper neck, which is where birth trauma, if you go backwards, you kind of cycle through birth trauma is so important to make sure that we're looking at that and that we're caring for that we're getting those, that area so relaxed and calm so that it has that feedback going up very high, be not very, you know, not in a stress state. When we talk about you know, when they say once you go to a chiropractor, you always have to go well, I always relate it back to like, Well, once you start eating well, you know, you would benefit to eat well, forever. Once you start meditating, you're going to feel so awesome that that's probably going to carry you forward, you get addicted to feeling great. I have no problem with that. I'll take that addiction, when you feel great by doing something that's really healthy for your body. You know, that's, that's good. I think we we should be okay with,with that.

Deb Timmerman:

So much great information that you share today and a little bit more into the neuroscience than probably any of our guests have gone. So we really appreciate that.

Dr. Kelly Fortier:

Yeah, very simplified. There's like more to it. But just keep it simple. And then we can kind of grasp and understand it better

Deb Timmerman:

To wrap up, we always ask every one of our guests this question, what's your favorite stress relief tool?

Dr. Kelly Fortier:

Oh, man, well, for those that know me, Barb, you, you've gotten to know me over the last little while. But I personally am a big kid. I love it when I lose myself playing with my kids or you know, being outside. And I always kind of say like play kind of dominates or takes over stress. So you cannot be playing, you know, like, whether you're building towers with your kids, or you're being silly. Like, I love dancing, and I am not a good dancer. But just like, you know, like, you can't be mad when you're dancing. Like it's, it takes a bad mood and it reverses it. So we oftentimes in our house, like dance parties or our big, it helps you know that you just be silly and like let people no one's watching you, you know, just let your guard down. Who cares? I'm not a great dancer, but I you know, I don't care. I just that's my favorite thing is is if I had to narrow it to one thing, I love dance parties. That's what we do. We blast the music. We play old school songs like it's just it's awesome. So that's what I do. Aside from getting adjusted, I'm probably dancing somewhere.

Deb Timmerman:

Thanks so much for recording with us today. We are really thrilled that you could take time on a Saturday yet.

Dr. Kelly Fortier:

Yeah, with today's my fun day I get to go to work because I'm a mom every other day of the week. So on Saturday, I get my my fill in at the office. So this is perfect.

Barb Fletcher:

Thank you so much, Kelly. And we really appreciate and we will add some details in with the podcast so that people will know how to reach out to you. So we'll we'll get those details from you.

Dr. Kelly Fortier:

Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. This is great,

Barb Fletcher:

Thank you.

Deb Timmerman:

less stress in life is possible. If you're new to this kind of thinking and would like to explore what's possible for you. We'd love to connect. You can reach us through our website at less stress in life calm that's less stress in life.com